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Interesting thoughts. I think apps like Untappd end up being whatever the user wants them to be. I like to use the good/great system. If I thought it was good, it gets 4 stars, great gets 5. If I didn’t like it or didn’t think it memorable, I won’t rate. Of course, as you said, a beer experience can be highly variable for an individual, so ultimately the ratings just serve as reminder that I enjoyed a beer.
Thanks for sharing. Hopefully we’ll all be more present with our beer drinking and life living.-
I liked the structure and basis of this comment. I feel the same way. Well said
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I like this piece. I’ve frequently wondered why I rate beers. I clearly don’t do it for myself, I’ll remember anything I loved and forgettable I probably won’t want to try again. My friends don’t consider me some sort of beer whisperer either, so I clearly don’t do it for them.
I’ll try to use a beer’s overall rating on Untappd to inform a purchase on occasion, but so many trend towards 3.5, I rarely find it to be largely helpful.
I loved the takeaway at the end. Beer is about having a good time. Anything else is noise.
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So true. I stopped using Untappd for many of the reasons you mentioned. I still track my beers though, but I carry a little pocket notebook for handwritten notes. This takes the one-upman-badge-checkin competition out of it, but still allows me to nerd out a bit. Plus, I don’t have to stare into my phone instead of interacting with the people around. If I taste a beer I really enjoy, I pull out the notebook and write down why; same for one that really hits me the wrong way. I have a nice little collection of notebooks now that I can reference if I want to go back and remember a specific brewery or roadtrip.
“Put down your phone and engage with your friends, co-workers, the world around you.”
Yes!
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“…and it turns out that I very seldom agree with my own assessments.”
This is why I’ll probably keep using the rating system. I’ve definitely changed the star count on repeat beers, and I guess I’m curious to consider what changes between checkins. The establishment? The day of the week? My mood? Did the brewer tweak the recipe? It all happens.
All other points about ratings are well taken, especially how objectivity starts falling apart on #3 of the night.
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I rate beers for two reasons. 1, since I blog, people do tend to care about my opinion on a beer so I give it in a professional manner (in most cases anyway). 2, so that way I can remember if a beer was worth buying again or have a good reference.
If I disagree with my rating on a previous beer, I’ll update it. Batch to batch beer does vary, even the same recipe and the best brewers are subject to crop variance. If I don’t feel I can appropriately rate a beer (intoxication level, previous beers, tasting event) than I will check in with no rating or simply not check it in. The nice thing about the app is everyone can use it their own way!
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My score/rating system means something to me. I do not score to BJCP guidelines.
3 – 3.25 I would order it again if it is the best available choice
3.5 I would recommend it to people who like the style
3.75 I will try this again
4-5 this are first choice to consume again
< 3 not recommended, unlikely to give a 2nd chance
< 2 significant off flavors, contamination or poor draft quality
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I agree with most of what was written. In my case, I use my HBC’s rating system applied to the Untappd numeric rating. Our HBC uses “Dump”, “Taster”, “Pint”, “Pitcher”, and “Keg”. So, for a beer to have a 5 in Untapped, it would have to be good enough that I would want to buy a keg and have it readily available to me on a daily basis on my home draft system. For a beer that I would likely choose to have a pint of when dropping by my local, I’ll give it a 3. The improvement of 1/4 point increments allows some nuance to the rating. If I am “more likely” to have a pint of a beer when at my local, it might get a 3.5.
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I was an early user and chatted with the developers when they switched to a 5 start system from the earlier 3.
I agree with your sentiments, but instead of finding it a problem, I like the fact that when I review I can see what I thought previously and test myself if I still agree. I’ve often changed ratings based on a repeat tasting, and would note that its important to recall how you got it (brewery direct, week old growler, tap, in a can)
Personally I have my own mental scale I apply to the untappd ratings
0-1.5 bad – don’t want it again
2 not horrible, not good
2.5-3 – a beer is ok, but nothing special, solid middle of the road.
3.5-4 – solid offering, decent flavour/nose
4.5-5 – would buy again in a heartbeat and would recommend to anyoneSomething else to consider is your personal style preferences. I’m not a coffee drinker, I don’t like coffee flavour, so my ratings are much lower on many porters, stouts. I use my ratings for me. the benefit of crowd sourcing is that my personal ratings will get factored out as the number of ratings grow. I’m confident if I’m drinking a beer that’s over 3.5 I’ll probably find it decent, even if I don’t like that style.
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Agree wholeheartedly. That’s how I use the ratings system as well.
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I don’t care about how ‘everyone’ rates beers on Untappd. I do sometimes care about how friends rate beers — either because I know we like similar things or different things. I rate beers on Untappd for my own information. It helps me remember what to try again and what to avoid. Although my ratings of repeat samplings sometimes change, I rarely go from not liking a beer to liking a beer in a repeat tasting. I tend to rate relative to a Budweiser being 2.5 — something I find acceptable but far from great. I’ll buy beer for enjoyment (rather than sampling) that I’ve previously rated 4.0 or higher.
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Knowing how your taste preferences relate to another’s is crucial to considering outside opinions. I work at a high end bottle shop, and will sell things based on trusted opinions if I know the customer’s personal tastes.
I don’t rate beers if I have nothing polite to say, whether they have flaws or have “ice”, “lite”, or “malt liquor” in their name. But then again, I am a trained professional, and regularly taste things I know I am not going to enjoy (sour beer, gin, cheap wine), and rate them on quality of craftsmanship. I also rate beers (and other drinks) in comparison to other similar things. Compairing an IPA from Vermont to one from San Diego is as unfair as compairing the weather in those two places. It is important to remember that ratings are subjective, and that averages are just average.
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I only rate the beers that I love. My theory is, if it is great, I want to remember and let my close friends know about it. If it is a middle of the road beer I will leave the rating empty.
I have no idea why anyone should base their consumption on my palate. Furthermore, how am I qualified to rate someone’s life passion? Personally, I cannot jeopardize their success on my judgement. Plus, what if I one day meet a brewer and become friends on the app? Why piss someone off? Who the heck am I, and how exactly are you qualified to rate beer? We are mostly a bunch of drunks that have nothing better to do!
In theory, if you don’t have anything good to say, stay quiet, good way to live life. -
I “kind” of agree with you, in the sense a beer will taste different in the context that it’s in. However, I’ve found this to be an awesome historical record keep.
What I mean by that, is sometimes, I’ll have a beer, and when I go to log it, I find that the rating is very different from how I feel about that beer at the moment. And so, this is where the comments, location, date/time (especially time) come into play. In the comments write why you thought the beer was good/bad, and it’ll help you understand at a different time why you felt a certain way about the beer. -
I find the average ratings useful in situations where I visit a bottle shop with hundreds of options available. Especially when visiting an out of state bottle shop that has a wide variety I can’t get at home (Michigan). If the beer is of a style I enjoy and has an average rating above 4, I will purchase it.
Another time I use average ratings is when choosing a new brewery to visit. If as a whole the brewery’s beers are highly rated, I make a point to visit when in the area while potentially skipping other breweries. Last night I visited a brewery that has offered 11 beers total. 9 averaged above 4 rating. 5 actually averaged above 4.5. It was some of the best beer I’ve ever had.
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Dan,
I agree with many aspects of your argument. With years in the beer/Brewing industry, I have noticed many situations in which folks get caught up in the moment, are influenced by their friends or are simply out of touch with the style &/or execution in which the brewer was trying to convey. Primarily based in the SouthEast, my business encounters many varieties of styles/techniques which can be misinterpreted as a “bad” or “good” beer. Education in the basic beer styles (which I find myself helping newbies to the craft) is such a key element to the experience. So many of the breweries/taprooms I visit are quite inadequate in this aspect. Thanks for bringing your observation to the forefront. Hopefully, more people will read your comments & adjust their way of thinking, accordingly. -
Thanks for your insight, Dan. Your piece has convinced me to skip rating the beers from my local brewery … after visiting another, nearby brewery producing the same style coffee brown ale I realized that I can’t separate my affection for the home team’s product from the home team. No more numeric ratings for them, then.
Terrific piece.
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As a professional brewer and avid beer drinker I really love this post.
I love the ability of Untappd as a way to log beers that you and your friends have drank. It’s great when I drink a beer and a couple of days later a friend of mine is able to see it and say “hey man I’ve been trying to find that, how was it??”.
The ratings system, however, is totally broken in so many ways. Most of which you’ve pointed out in your post.
Being in the industry I think it’s poor form to rate beers but I generally jot down notes. Ratings in general are totally broken. For example, some of the best beers I’ve ever had had a terrible (<3.5) rating because they're non-hoppy beers at a trendy brewery that's known for their IPAs.
The flip side also happens with "less trendy" breweries.
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I don’t know why people continue to bang on about the ratings… There is no fixing /any/ ratings system. The whole point of it is to be subjective. Your point of it’s my 8th beer, are you in any shape to objectively rate this beer is case-in-point. To some people/brewers you may not have been with 0 beers. Similarly if you’re a person that hates saison you’ll consistently rate them low.
IMO spreading ratings over different metadata like aroma, colour, clarity etc will just exacerbate the problem.
If you rate based on other peoples ratings then you’re doing it wrong and you’re easily led as it is. Your whole “Internet life” is going to be traumatic. Internet better.
Ratings should be for yourself, not for others. I try to rate and comment on every checkin. Mostly for my own selfishness. If I’m looking a beer up to see if I’ve had it and I have, if I didn’t like – I’ll move on. It’s not for other people to use my option to inform their choices.
I’ve spoken to a few brewers and they have got caught up in the ratings thing and oh how sad people don’t like it.. well to them I say you’re missing the point. Look at the reach and volume instead.
TL,DR: ratings should be fun and personal not a serious gauge of anything, at all. Just ignore them and move on.
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I started by rating everything a 5. At some point I switched to no rating at all. I like the tracking – beers, breweries, and venues. I also like badges. I guess I’m not very helpful to the community as I myself will sometimes use the average rating as the decision-maker between two beers I’ve never had.
I check in every beer whether the first or the 50th. I was rewarded for this when Fuller’s had a badge available. I went to my local British pub and had two pints. Checked them both in. The first I got the badge. The second I got a free Fuller’s glass. I think three months passed before I received it but I did.
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Great article, and while I still have to compulsively rate my beers, I know where you are coming from. Especially with the fact that you can’t change – or better yet average out – your beer ratings for a more long term personal rating.
I would say you left out one major factor for variances: Beer age. Just look at Orval. What’s it going to taste like fresh? 6 months? 2 years? And how am I going to rate it at those stages.
IPAs are probably the best example. As we know, most start going downhill at 6 weeks, some sooner, some later*.
*I will say I had a year old Heady Topper that was always kept refrigerated. When we drank it, it was still just freaking amazing! What does that brewer know?
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How about addressing your alcoholism or simply tapout from Untappd? The app’s singular most important feature is the rating system. What the f$@# is the point of checking beers in, if you don’t contribute to the rating pool? Bozo
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It is impossible to be objective rating anything by definition. Any single thing you rate whether it is overall or bitter and etc, it is all based on subjective experience at that particular time. If you think being really drunk changes your score, well what do you think getting fired or getting married or etc will affect your score? I would say not to take yourself too seriously with rating beer.
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Interesting article! Since craft beer, like anything else is consumed, is highly subjective, I take ratings with a grain of salt. Someone trying an IPA at a beer tasting who typically doesn’t like IPAs will probably give it a low rating, simply because they don’t like IPAs. I know someone who gave Dark Lord 2014 one star when he first tried it because he didn’t like stouts back then. He upgraded it when he tried it again years later (last year actually) after his tastes for stouts had matured.
I like rating it though. Especially if it’s been years since I last had it. How did I rate this beer a few years ago? Where was I when I had it? If I gave it a ridiculously high rating, and I was at a venue where I was probably pounding brews because there were bands playing, my guess is I probably gave it a faulty high rating, haha. Or maybe, like my friend, I tried something I didn’t like years ago, but my tastes have since matured.
Cheers!
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Nice article and some great follow up comments. Despite my life with beer, I never actually rated myself qualified enough to apply a rating to somebody else’s beer. They’ve worked hard over it (hopefully) so who am I to mark it down for any reason? Especially if I’ve had a downer of a day and the beer rating gets reflected by my mood.
I also don’t think I can be so accurate as to finely pick out the difference between a 3.6 and a 3.7 beer??? (Yes, an Untappd “supporter”/paid member has the benefit of being able to rate even more accurately – Like it really matters; I struggle to pick out the difference between a 3.0 and a 3.5!)
So I choose to rate beers either as a 5 or no rating. Life is so much simpler that way. Hopefully it does not offend any of the brewers and it certainly means I can just get on with enjoying those beers that matter with people who like to drink them with me. Cheers!
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Score isn’t useful information anyway. What one person like, other person may not like. Or you didn’t enjoy something one day but another. Amount of stars isn’t indication whether I would like it or not. It kinda leads to statistical logic fallacy. And I don’t want be influenced by that.
“blind tests” are more fun anyway. Buy something because want to buy it, not because it have 5 stars on some site. Or not avoiding something just because bunch of ppl decided give it bad score for some reason. Might become your favorite beer!
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I rate beers for me so I never drink a bad beer twice. A quick look at my previous check-ins allows me to buy or not buy based on my experience, or the experience of my friends whose taste I trust
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